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Comments on: Tim Layden’s Lies of Omission and Laziness https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/ The Independent Voice of Notre Dame Athletics Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:07:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: gmarrydressrhu https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10992 Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:07:49 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10992 We train as a armed forces to all kinds of fair-haired boy rise s that vanish in along in a diversification of styles, colors and sizes at wholesale price.All prom dresses
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By: jravasio https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10969 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:19:51 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10969 In reply to LD.

LD,
I think you’re missing the point of why Notre Dame fans on this board are so frustrated with the article specifically, and the anti-ND bias generally. This following summation of ND is incorrect: that we view ourselves as angels who never do anything wrong, and we’ll be damned to let anyone, even SI, speak incorrectly ill against us. That just isn’t true.
At ND, we strive to do the right thing, as Harrison Smith is quoted as saying in the article. It’s not that ND is a perfect place with perfect people, again paraphrasing Smith. As you say, we recruit teenagers to go to college the same as any other place. The frustration lies in the implications of the article as laid out by SEE in this post, all without the true depth and complexity of the many issues mentioned by Chris above. Consider the following criticisms:

1) That we’ve lowered our standards for students, citing Michael Floyd as an example. As many students during the Kirk era can attest, du Lac (our discipline code) and it’s application was regularly seen by the student body as overbearing and inequitable. And I’d wager that many alums prior to Kirks’ time who were still attached to the campus could speak to how much things had changed at the University from a student life perspective, largely for the negative. SEE certainly gets this.

2) The article’s treatment of Ms. Seeberg’s case and death is irresponsibly shallow. Layden takes a case that involves no NDPD charges, no charges from the local prosecuting attorney, adds to that the infinite anguish of a father who will forever suffer through the tragic loss of his daughter, all to prove the point that ND has sold itself to ascend to the top of the football world, and Layden isn’t going to let that happen without shining light on the sins of this institution.

It’s shallow, it’s devious, it’s insensitive to those involved in such tragedies (including the unnamed football player involved with Seeberg, and I’m glad his identity remains protected).

Look, we know we’re going to get criticized. ND fans know that more than most, if not all. The last 19 years have been especially tough, and the criticism goes much deeper than football wins and losses. But if one is prone to criticize ND, and if you do it from the beacon of Sports Illustrated, we simply ask that you do it with the facts. This article doesn’t do that. And when it comes at the apex of this 19 year period, well, that’s incredibly frustrating.

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By: jravasio https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10872 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:05:02 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10872 In reply to 2001sorin.

2001 Sorin, I absolutely agree. I’m a ’97 – ’01 guy myself. But, I also benefitted from a person of authority who caught me in a bad state my freshman year, and gave me the break of simply handling the matter in house. 15 years later, I still remember that lesson and appreciate how it was handled.

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By: ND Chicago https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10812 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:15:16 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10812 The deaths of Declan Sullivan and Lizzy Seeberg were clearly tragedies and any parent’s worst nightmare. However, as you pointed out, Ms. Seeberg was dealing with several psychological issues prior to this alleged incident. Additionally, there are only two people who know for sure what happened in that room on that day and one of them is dead. This is not an attempt to blame the victim, but there is no way to know if this alleged incident occurred and/or was the singular cause of her choosing to end her life and we’ll never know the answer to that question because, again, she’s no longer here. Layden doesn’t know the answers to these questions either, but he wanted to tie the situation to Kelly and the football program to smear Kelly and ND. Perhaps, if Layden and SI’s motives were altruistic they would have explored these issues two years ago when they occurred. The fact they chose to mention it now, when ND football is on the verge of something special, should tell any fair minded reader where their motivation lies. As for ND being lucky this year, yes, they have gotten some breaks; most championship teams do. Its about time the tide turned; hasn’t ND football had its share of bad luck/missed calls the last 15-20 years? How about the expired play clock at MSU on that fake field goal that wasn’t called 2 years ago? It’s hard to win all your games without some good fortune, but why does ND’s WIN against Pitt get more scrutiny than Alabama’s LOSS at home? The disdain for ND is alive and well, but the best revenge would be one more win on January 7th. Go Irish!!!

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By: John https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10764 Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:51:32 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10764 I can’t take seriously any talk about moral high ground appearing in the pages of a supposed sports magazine that has an annual swimsuit issue.

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By: Jim https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10705 Sun, 25 Nov 2012 05:29:54 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10705 As much as I dislike current American vernacular, in this case there’s wisdom in the saying “Haters gonna hate.”. I’m sure the administration, the athletic department and the team don’t think twice about this stuff. 12-0 speaks for itself. Go Irish!

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By: BrO'Neill https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10699 Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:54:54 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10699 SEE, I agree completely. After reading it for the first time, I had an odd feeling. I knew some decent things were said about the school, but the “Winning as Tragedy” section really put a bad taste in my mouth. Thank you for reminding us of all of the facts.

Also, having graduated in ’10, I can completely echo that ResLife had become a “letter of the law” organization, and not one that would try to help students overcome issues. The entire school felt that way about ResLife. On that same topic, students also had negative feelings about the Excise Police carding people in the parking lots during game day and the ushers in the stadium becoming power mongers. Rather than brushing off minor offenses (at Notre Dame on game day!), these groups immediately opted for harsh punishment. My note to them: lighten up.

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By: IrishHawk https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10692 Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:28:38 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10692 I was at the Senior Day game with my teenage son. Actually, we made an entire weekend of it starting with the Kickoff Luncheon on Friday. Through a very fortunate (for us) case of mistaken identity, we wound up on the field after the game and left the stadium through the tunnel. He didn’t calm down for two days! I was in Chicago on business on the day the magazine came out and I stood waiting for the guy at the newstand to remove the shipment from the plastic…I bought TWO copies so my son could save one with his other ND memorabilia. Bottom line: I didn’t even let him read it. I threw them away.

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By: 31sorin https://dev.ndnation.com/tim-laydens-lies-of-omission-and-laziness/#comment-10686 Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:45:23 +0000 https://dev.ndnation.com/?p=3533#comment-10686 What metric is used for the NCAA Academic Progress Rate that ranks ND 25th?

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